Tuesday, October 21, 2008, at 12 noon, U.S. Eastern time
Many young adults who take jobs in the nonprofit world do so with lofty ambitions to change the world.
What many young people find, however, is that while they have an urge to help others, they don't have the knowledge they need to earn the autonomy and expertise they need to succeed on the job. Many others feel as though they are not being trained to become a leader in their field.
How can you avoid these pitfalls? What is it really like to work in the nonprofit world? How can you build a career that matches your ambitions? Will the nation's recent economic troubles alter the job market or make it more difficult for younger workers to advance their careers?
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The Guest
Shelly Cryer is a careers consultant and the author of The Nonprofit Career Guide: How to Land a Job That Makes a Difference. As a consultant, Ms. Cryer helped create American Humanics's Initiative for Nonprofit Sector Careers, a research and advocacy project in Kansas City, Mo.
A transcript of the chat follows.
Cassie Moore (Moderator):
Welcome to today's live discussion on careers in the nonprofit world. Shelly Cryer, an expert on nonprofit careers and author of the new book The Nonprofit Career Guide: How to Land a Job That Makes a Difference, will be answering your questions about finding a nonprofit job, advancing in your current career, furthering your education, and how our economy may affect employment at nonprofit groups.
Ms. Cryer is generously providing three free copies of her book to our readers. If you're interesting in getting a copy, please send an email to discussions@philanthropy.com. We'll choose three winners randomly and announce the winners tomorrow on our Give & Take blog and on the Philanthropy Today roundup of news items.
Shelly Cryer:
I'm delighted to participate in this online chat; thank you for the opportunity! It's an exciting time to be interested in launching or developing your nonprofit sector career, but also a challenging one.
We don't know yet the full story of how the current economic crisis will affect nonprofits, but certainly it will. But the nonprofit sector will not be going away. In fact, we may be depending even more on nonprofits and the services they provide. The best organizations will still be looking for skilled, experienced, passionate workers. And leadership opportunities abound.
But competition can be fierce, and the nonprofit sector job seeker may have to be just that much more professional and tenacious in his or her outreach efforts in order to get the job she or he wants.
I look forward to answering your questions.
Cassie Moore (Moderator):
Okay, let's get started. To ask Shelly your question, simply click on the "ask a question" link on this page and type your query. We also invite you to share your advice with others by adding your own perspective to questions and answers that are posted during the discussion. You can do so using the same tool.
Question from Matt Ishler, Penn State:
What are some of the best sources of career information regarding employment opportunities with NGOs, Nonprofit Organizations, and similar entities, for current college students and recent graduates (ie: somewhat less professionally experienced candidates)?
Shelly Cryer:
There are many sources of information about the nonprofit sector and jobs in it. Many are available on-line. I'll share a few top ones. But as important as the on-line sources of information are people. It's so critical to get away from your computer and out in the field as you are job searching and career building.
To get a "lay of the land" about nonprofits, different subsectors, and employment in the sector, check out The Urban Institute's Center on Nonprofits and Philanthropy, as well as their National Center for Charitable Statistics (http://www.urban.org). And your local library should have the NONPROFIT ALMANAC that the Urban Institute just released, that is an easy-to-read resource packed with information about the sector.
For leads to specific jobs, sites such as Idealist, Opportunity Knocks, the Chronicle of Philanthropy, and the Foundation Center are good places to start. And also identify networks of nonprofits that are in your community and are better connected to nonprofits near you.
But really, the best sources of information are people. the majority of nonprofit leaders depend on "word of mouth" referrals when they are filling vacancies. You need to have a vibrant network of nonprofit professionals and leaders in your field who know you are job searching and putting you in touch with organizations and individuals. This is how you get a great job, and one that matches your passion and experiences.
Question from Brianna Bartley, Indiana State University:
What is your best advice to start building a career now for college freshman? Should we network, or just not do anything until we graduate, or should we keep in contact with the organization that we want to work with and let them know we are here to help if they need anything? I am just confused on what to do? Thank you very much
Shelly Cryer:
YES! You can't start too early!
Networking is vital. And your college campus and local community offer fertile ground for meeting experts, developing relationships, and tapping into resources that will support your career goals for the rest of your life. Use your career center, academic advisors, professors, internships coordinators, etc., and start now!
Also, use your academic studies and extra-curricular pursuits to develop both an ISSUE AREA of expertise and FUNCTIONAL SKILLS. That is, hone in on the environment, human rights, economic development ... whatever you are interested in. And also develop a specific skills set, including strong communication skills (which every job seeker needs).
Question from Lauren Staebell, student:
Are there certain cities around the country that are better to live in while working at a nonprofit? I find that many nonprofit organizations that I research have offices in NYC, or somewhere on the coasts, is there a benefit to starting a career there instead of the midwest, which is where I'm from?
Shelly Cryer:
It's true that larger cities offer "more opportunities" in absolute terms. They are home to more organizations and more jobs. But don't underestimate the power of your own network. The leads and support system you have in the area where you are from MAY outweigh the extra opportunities in a bigger city. So much of career building depends on great networking and personal contacts.
Do research. Udnerstand the work you want to do and figure out which organizations, specifically, would provide the opportunities you want to pursue. Talk with people to see if relocating makes sense. If you do relocate, do as much advance work as you can, to develop contacts in the community where you plan to move.
Question from Rev. Angel Rodriguez, UPENN:
What are the prospects for success in founding one’s own 501(c)(3) in the current economic climate? What tips can you offer? Thank you.
Shelly Cryer:
I get this question frequently. It's a big issue within the nonprofit world, as well as for so many people with a vision for how they want to make a difference in the world.
Every day, many new nonprofits are popping up. But many are also folding. In this economic climate (and even before) many experts and leaders are leaning towards CONSOLIDATION and collaboration, rather than advocating for the start of a new entity.
If you are interested in starting your own nonprofit, you carry a big responsibility to do due diligence and speak with many people in your field. You need to ensure that your idea is not being done ... and also that it can not be done in partnership with (or under the auspices of) an existing organization.
There are many benefits to collaborating. You don't have to deal with some of the administrative work involved with founding and supporting a nonprofit. You can bring your own leads to a group and also tap into their networks. Foundations and other funders love to see collaboration and fundraising could be easier.
But, having said all of that, you may do your research and find that, indeed, a new organization is necessary. In that case, read some of the good pieces about founding a 501(c)(3), develop a strong body of advisors and board, and good luck!
Question from Jane Doe, small foundation:
How do you feel about people who want to work in nonprofits obtaining an MBA? I am sure the skills and knowledge would be helpful, but how necessary is it to get to the high level management positions?
Shelly Cryer:
There is no cookie cutter answer to this question. Getting an advanced degree can be very helpful in developing your career, but you need to have clear direction on what you want professionally and ensure that the degree supports those goals. Some organizations require advanced degrees for certain positions. Some value them but don't require them. Some only care about the work you have done.
Talk with people who are doing the work you dream of doing and find out about their career and educational paths. Visit campuses and meeting with students, deans, professors, etc., and see what they are doing and if they would be colleagues you would find beneficial to your goals.
And also think about other ways you can develop yourself professionally. Participate in networks, attend conferences, secure Board appointments, etc. You can do these things in addition to or instead of getting a master's degree, depending on what is best for your own goals.
Question from Frances O'Neal, Univ of Memphis:
What's the best advice that you can give to a mature student searching for a nonprofit position in fundraising? Are there places that cater to older applicants?
Shelly Cryer:
Fundraising and development experts are going to be more coveted than ever in the years ahead. Young or mature, you need to have concrete experience in the field and, ideally, an issue area that you are expert in.
Having sample grant proposals in your portfolio will help, as will being able to communicate experience with special events, prospect research, major donor cultivation, and the like. If you don't have this, find ways to volunteer or intern with a group that will allow you some development opportunities.
I don't know specifically about places that cater to older applicants, but you certainly should think about leveraging your own networks and contacts that you have developed over your life. And check out networks that might be new to you, such as the Association of Fundraising Professionals.
In all of the presentations I do, I tell every nonprofit job seeker that he or she should be reading regularly The Chronicle of Philanthropy (so it is not just because I am doing this chat!). It provides such great information on the sector overall. But if you are pursuing a fundraising career, it is absolutely required.
Question from Rebeca:
I am a journalist from Central Europe and I would like to follow a career in a nonprofit field but in my country these jobs are not well paid.
I the last two years, many companies in my country have charities and CSR (Corporate Social Responsibility) departments. Can you tell if by getting a job in a company in CSR allows me later to have access to a foundation or charity, is a company's CSR field a good place to start a career?
Shelly Cryer:
This sounds like a wonderful way to get your foot in the door. (Interestingly, in the U.S.A., many of our corporations have foundations as well, but they are often staffed by only one or two people. It is one of the hardest nonprofit fields to actually break into.)
This experience is wonderful because it involves "connecting the dots" between nonprofits and for-profits (and often business as well). These kind of inter-sector collaborations are increasingly important today, and your experience from a "corporate social responsibility" vantage point would be very attractive to many nonprofit employers.
Question from Emily - NYU:
I am a recent graduate of NYU and am looking for a job involved with international organizations. I have applied for at least 60 jobs and still have no luck. My experience and resume is good and I just cant seem to get anything. Any words of advice?
Shelly Cryer:
I guess this is the most frequent question I receive. The frustrating reality is that event the best cover letter, strongest resume, and most compelling application to a job that you are ideally qualified for does not always land you an interview.
Why not?
There are lots of reasons, but one of the key ones is that many nonprofit recruiters are overwhelmed by the applications they receive. Most organizations are small or mid-sized (74% of nonprofits have revenue less than $500,000 per year). These groups do not have a dedicated human resources person. Program directors, executive directors, administrators are doing HR, and it is often not a systematic or professional process.
You need to get through the "noise."
The #1 to do this is to have people advocating for you. Word of mouth referrals. Personal connections.
You need people who are picking up the phone for you and saying, "Beth? You must meet Emily. She is a stellar candidate for that position you have open that you told me about. I just had coffee with her last week, and she impressed me with her passion and experience." This is how you get an interview ... and a job.
I also might suggest that 60 resumes is too many. Yes, it is great to get applications out there. But an application absolutely MUST be tailored to the job. I would guess that a good application takes 4-5 hours to prepare -- the research about the group you need to do, the phone calls you need to make, the tailoring of the cover letter, etc. Were there truly 60 jobs that you were qualified for? Better to apply to 15 or 20, have people working for you to get interviews at those, than to apply to 60.
Question from Sam Varlas, small association:
For the long term professional growth, is it best to focus on increasing your skills in functional areas (i.e., program management) rather than specific type of organization or region (such as children's issues/Africa etc)?
Shelly Cryer:
It's wonderful that you are thinking about this. The research suggests that nonprofit leaders want BOTH. They care absolutely that you can communicate and demonstrate a passion for their mission, and expertise in the work they are doing. But they also want professionals in functional areas.
And as people are thinking about the functional expertise they develop, I encourage everyone to concentrate on communication and development skills. No matter what job you are pursuing, strong writing and verbal skills are an asset, and prized by nonprofit leaders. And even if you are not going to do fundraising, understanding development and being able to think strategically about how you can support an organization's fundraising efforts will help anyone's career. Especially in this economy!
Finally, think not only about the MISSION of an organization, but the STRATEGIES it employs to advance its mission. Is it a research organization? Policy? Advocacy? Membership? Does it fund other organizations? Think about not only what it does, but how it does it, and what kind of strategies you want to be a part of.
Question from Kirstin McCarthy, Associate Director of Programs, Business-Higher Education Forum:
I'm interested to hear strategies for building necessary skill sets (in my case program evaluation, statistics background) during the work day.
Also, in a small non-profit, in my experience, there is always more than enough work to go around. What strategies can you suggest for maintaining work-life balance, while still staying on top of all of the "moving parts"?
Shelly Cryer:
Nonprofits are known for offering "less traditional" benefits, and professional development opportunities are one of them. Speak frankly with your supervisors about your own professional goals and the opportunities that will help you ... and help you do your work better. Stay apprised of conferences, seminars, workshops, etc., that could help you and see if you can get support from your organization's leadership to attend them. And be creative about what you propose to BRING INTO your organization -- maybe many of your colleagues would benefit from a monthly "brown bag" lunch roundtable where you bring in an outside speaker. A rising tide lifts all boats, and perhaps what helps you will help others.
The second question is a big and vital one, and one that we could do an entire hour on (or day)! Being clear about your own parameters and communicating those with a positive attitude to your colleagues helps. It also helps to have a mentor. Some person even more seasoned than you who you can touch base with periodically, think aloud with, and get advice from on this challenging issue.
Cassie Moore (Moderator):
Hello to our readers and chart participants!
This is a very hot topic and we're getting lots of questions. Just wanted to let you know, if you don't see your question answered by the end of the hour, please check back later this week, because Ms. Cryer has agreed to answer a few more questions after the chat is over, which we'll add to the transcript. Thanks!
Question from Katharine, grant writer:
Ms. Cryer: I am an entry-level grant writer for a social services nonprofit interested in advancing in the nonprofit sector to a leadership position but not sure what steps to take. I have a liberal arts degree and would consider continuing my education if I knew what degree/certification would be best to pursue. I'm especially interested in working with women, perhaps internationally, and incorporating creativity into my work life. Any suggestions?
Shelly Cryer:
First, it is great you have grant writing experience. This will be valuable for you and to your career for a lifetime.
There is no degree that is best for advancing in the nonprofit sector. You really need to hone in on what you want to do and have an idea of the position and work you dream of, and then make sure that an advanced degree is necessary to that.
Although you are not saying this, no one should use an advanced degree to "buy time" or get more ideas about what you want to do. Yes, the academic setting is wonderful for making contacts, stimulating new thought, gaining knowledge. But it is too expensive and too much of a time commitment to do it without a clear understanding of how it will help you. Talk with people in the field and visit programs to figure out if it is right for you.
Question from Bryan L. Freeman, University of Nebraska at Omaha AHA:
First of all I want to thank you for writing this book.It is a one of my most cherished resources right now.
I have found that by using your book and Jennifer Brobow Burns' Book, Career Opportunities in the Nonprofit Sector have been extremely helpful. I am interested to know if this book is a result of your experiences trying to find a job and could you share with us what your fisrt nonprofit job was like?
Shelly Cryer:
Wow. Thanks so much. I really appreciate that.
I wrote the book for a few different reasons. The biggest reason is because -- nearly 20 years after I graduated from college -- one of the things I am most grateful for is that I have loved my work. Truly. I worked hard to build my nonprofit career, and it was one of the greatest gifts I gave myself. And I wish that for everyone -- work that they love and are proud of.
I also will always remember being a college senior at Duke. I loved my education and loved Duke. But I wanted into the career center and said, "I have done this, this, and this. And I want to work for a women's rights organization." And the staff person said, "We can't help you." They were so well connected to big firms with major corporate recruiting techniques, but they did not have connections to or resources about nonprofit careers.
(My first nonprofit job was doing campaign work for the ACLU Reproductive Freedom Project. From there I made connections to the people working with Ellie Smeal to found a new women's rights organization - The Feminist Majority - and I took a staff job with them. I helped develop ROCK FOR CHOICE with bands like Nirvana and L7, to get young people involved in the pro-choice movement. Great but exhausting work!)
And finally, the book emerged from some research I did at NYU Wagner -- the final report is at this link:
http://www.humanics.org/atf/cf/%7BE02C99B2-B9B8-4887
-9A15-C9E973FD5616%7D/nextgenleadership.pdf
This looked at missed connections among college seniors, career offices, and nonprofits.
And it developed into my partnership with American Humanics and the launching of the Initiative for Nonprofit Sector Careers. Paul Light at NYU Wagner says the recruitment and retention of the next generation of nonprofit leaders must be understood as a "collective goods" issue. I agreed and it led to my idea for a nonprofit sector workforce coalition, which American Humanics facilitates and now has 70 national nonprofits supporting and helping us lead. We all realized we need more and better resources, so this book is part of that effort.
Question from J.D. Brooks, small Catholic college:
Shelly,
I am one of the young adults that was prefaced in this conversation. I am currently 24, and have landed a great job as the Director of Development for a small, Catholic liberal arts institution.
I have recently completed my LSATS, and hope to enter law school on a part-time basis. I think that the fruits of an advanced degree such as this are endless.
I am very interested in understanding what I can do to reach my dream of eventually becoming a college president and leader.
What are suggestions and advice that you would pose to helping avoid political pitfalls and making myself a viable candidate in the next 30 years or so??
Shelly Cryer:
It sounds like you already have great experience and a wonderful vision about where you want to head. I think you are someone who truly would benefit from a strong network of advisors, as well as people who really become mentors to you. Work hard to develop relationships in your field and take the time to cultivate the contacts who demonstrate interest in you and who you are inspired by.
Also, be intentional about BEING a mentor and helping people behind you. This is one of many ways that you can be developing your leadership skills at the same time as supporting the nonprofit sector and younger leaders in it.
Question from Ronald Smythe, White Tiger Foundation:
How or whom do I ask for start up funding to get my foundation going? With out funding White Tiger Foundation.org may have to shut down.
Shelly Cryer:
The Foundation Center is a wonderful organization that has branches across the country. Their resources (and librarians) could help you do research on funders that might support your work. Also, talk with people in your community who are associated with children's issues, hospitals and health cares, and related programs. They may have good leads for you too.
Question from Brittany Hallewell, Brigham Young University:
I work with the university career center. How can we as a careers center best assist our students in finding nonprofit internships and careers?
Shelly Cryer:
So much research suggests that college and university career centers are really hampered by their ability to serve students interested in professional public service and nonprofit careers. Most nonprofits are small or midsized and don't have a dedicated human resources person or an earmarked recruitment budget. So they often don't feel they have the capacity to reach out to college career centers. Unfortunately, the work then falls on the career center staff. And students often lose out because of limited capacity.
American Humanics sponsors an annual A CALL TO SERVE workshop for career service professionals, concentrated just on nonprofit career counseling. It's at our annual AH Management Institute (see http://www.humanics.org) -- the next one is January 4-7 in Indianapolis, and off-line I can get your more information. (We also just received some new and very earmarked funding to provide scholarships for career service professionals from Utah, North Carolina, Florida, and Arizona to attend A CALL TO SERVE this January.)
For everyone, one key strategy that I am sure you already know is connecting with other departments on your campus. Make connections to the faculty members and program directors who are connected to nonprofit-related work. Partner with them in programs for students.
Try to offer opportunities to nonprofits in your community so that their resources are not stretched thin, and also so they see the benefit to their group. Maybe one representative from an organization can attend a career fair on behalf of a group of like-minded organizations. Maybe a professor will host a nonprofit professional as a guest speaker, and your office can have her for another event? Nonprofit/university collaborations can lead to shared grant proposals and programs, new funding opportunities, etc., so finding colleagues who can communicate those opportunities to nonprofits may help you get them engaged with your office and your students.
Try to find umbrella organizations of nonprofits that you can partner with, that bring with them networks of nonprofits so that you are not only doing one-on-one outreach.
And maybe have a few copies of our new book - The Nonprofit Career Guide (http://www.nonprofitcareerguide.org/) - in your library?
(Wink.)
Question from Tony Abbruzzi, UNCG:
Are there specific courses that a liberal arts students should take to prepare themselves for a career in the non-profit sector?
Shelly Cryer:
I don't think so. You want to use your education to gain some expertise in a certain field and also skills and experiences that will support the type of work you want to do. And you want to be an active, involved student that pursues volunteer and internship opportunities, makes deep connections to the best faculty members in your field, takes advantage of extra curriculars, and taps into your career center and academic advisors as early as possible. You'll never again have the opportunities for career development and networking that you have as a student! Take advantage of your time!
Cassie Moore (Moderator):
Reminder: To ask Shelly your question, simply click on the "ask a question" link on this page and type your query. We also invite you to share your advice with others by adding your own perspective to questions and answers that are posted during the discussion. You can do so using the same tool.
Question from Danielle, small non-profit:
Does it look bad to potential employers if you've been at your current position for less than a year?
Shelly Cryer:
There's no "science" to issues like these. A few short term stints can be explained. 20 years of hopping around will raise a red flag. Leaders like to see commitment to a mission and your communication tools need to be able to tell a powerful story about who you are and what you have done. In today's age, they are used to seeing some shorter stays at organizations.
Question from Erin, large nonprofit:
Please discuss the pros and cons of a non-profit based education and professional accreditation. Further, please list examples of both.
Shelly Cryer:
I've touched on education and its connection to career advancement in a couple of my answers.
I am affiliated with American Humanics (http://www.humanics.org) and helped them launch the Initiative for Nonprofit Sector Careers. AH has nonprofit education programs on 70 campuses across the country, and you might check out their website for more information on this subject. American Humanics provides a national certification in nonprofit management and leadership. It's a program that I believe is very important, and the issue of leadership development is one that I think our sector needs to pay more attention to.
Also, the Nonprofit Academic Centers Council (http://www.naccouncil.org) and ARNOVA might be of interest to you, if you don't know them already.
Question from Robin Smith:
What do I need to learn to become a desirable candidate for high profile nonprofit leadership careers? How can I develop the skills to be successful at it? What type of careers/organizations lead you to developing good skills for running nonprofits?
Shelly Cryer:
In my book, I did an interview with Brian Gallagher, president and CEO of the United Way of the USA. He was tremendously articulate about what makes a great leader, and I would love everyone to see that interview if your library has my book. I can't do his thoughts justice, I know!
He talks about how great leaders see beyond themselves, for sure. But also beyond their own organizations. They see the bigger picture and bigger goals. They hire strength, they know how to listen, they are kind, they recognize the tremendous value of diversity -- diverse perspectives, backgrounds, and experiences. They are partners in the field.
One thing I share with people hoping for a leadership position is that they must recognize the realities of the job. Fundraising and development is a big part of most executive directors' lives. Board management and development. Managing staff. Accounting, administration. Some people don't recognize these responsibilities. If you want a senior leadership position, these job functions require the development of very specific skills, that you have to be intentional about development.
Seek out leadership responsibilities, both at work and in your volunteer activities. Take advantage of professional development opportunities. Develop a network. Find a mentor. Be a mentor. Become a spokesperson in your field. Speak to classes of high school and college students. Write Op-Eds and letters to the editors for your local paper. Go to conferences. Submit proposals for presentations. Organize panel discussions. Read the best publications about the sector (The Chronicle of Philanthropy is a must-read, as well as journals and magazines devoted to your field).
Question from Yolanda, AmeriCorps VISTA:
I am very interested in going into the philanthropic sector, but how can a recent college graduate with a recent bankruptcy, due to extenuating circumstances, succeed in the philanthropic and financial world?
Shelly Cryer:
I do not think this should deter you from pursuing your dreams. I would get advice from professionals in your field on how you talk about it if it ever comes up, in a clear and honest manner that then moves the conversation on to the more important things about your background. But I am not immediately seeing why this would come up.
Question from Susan M.,non-profit Master's student:
I have a BS in PR & I'm thinking that my internships, etc. were not enough. I'm doing a Master's in NonProfit Management but it seems not to be enough--we were never taught typical programs like RaisersEdge so that is my pitfall applying for jobs. So when are you ready to get a job in nonprofit? And are there any free training programs for young professionals in the field?
Shelly Cryer:
It's very smart to identify and then gain the specific skills that will help you get the job you want.
Yes, many organizations provide free or very inexpensive trainings.
Check out the National Council of Nonprofit Associations (NCNA), at http://www.councilofnonprofits.org, and find the state chapter in your region.
Find out of there are nonprofit support centers or other networks of nonprofits in your community. They often host classes.
YNPN is the Young Nonprofit Professionals Network, http://www.ynpn.org, and if they have a chapter near you, they would be a great resource.
The AFP, Association of Fundraising Professionals, may be a good resource for you in particular.
Schedule some informational interviews (a coffee conversation with a professional that does NOT focus on a specific job opening) with development professionals in your community. Ask them what networks they belong to.
Question from Charlotte Walker, Noble of Indiana:
What should the sector be doing in order to prepare future leaders?
Shelly Cryer:
We're running out of time, so I am going to try to be much briefer.
This is something I care so much about. As a sector, we need to work collaborative on the issue of developing new leaders, and the Nonprofit Sector Workforce Coalition that I helped found and is now facilitated by Stephen Bauer at American Humanics is one strategy (of many).
As individuals in the sector, as leaders of organizations, we need to convince our board members and funders that this issue is critical and demands our support and attention.
We all need play a personal role in being mentors to individuals, and being advocates for the sector. Speak in your community, share your passion for your work, engage partners in what you do ... especially ones who are connected to young people.
Question from Leigh Knopf AICPA:
How does one best transition and position himself from private sector job to a nonprofit position?
Shelly Cryer:
Private sector skills ARE valued by nonprofit leaders. But you must also demonstrate an understanding of the nonprofit sector and a passion for the field of work you want to go into. Your networking efforts are probably more important than others', because you need people advocating on your behalf as you make the switch. Get out there and meet people. Be persuasive about what you want to do. And volunteer (strategically) if you don't have nonprofit experience on your resume.
Question from Nick Cross:
I've been in fundraising for several years and want to switch to the program side. Any suggestions on things I should highlight or skills I should polish up?
Shelly Cryer:
While some fundraisers feel they are "tracked" in fundraising, don't hide this experience. It IS valuable no matter what you pursue. Just find the right balance on how you talk about it, and include how you worked with program people to be successful in your job. Be clear and as specific about what you want to do, and ask people doing that work to review your cover letter and resume to make sure it speaks to that work. The skills you need will be specific to the work you want to do.
Question from Molly, small non-profit:
I have worked at a small non-profit for about 2 and half years in progressively responsible roles but have recently left to get different experience. I have applied for a number of jobs for which I am well qualified. Many of which I have contacts within the organization to advocate for me. Unfortunately with human services budget cuts, etc. the positions are frozen or they are unable to hire. What advice can you give on dealing with this?
Shelly Cryer:
If you are applying for actual positions that ARE available and that have people internally advocating for you, then you are doing everything possible. I am not sure there is any advice if you are confronting a direct "freeze" in your field.
One idea I share with students (in the context of unpaid internships in the nonprofit arena) which possibly could connect to this issue is to bring a willingness to fundraise with you. Show an awareness of the current climate and demonstrate your knowledge of fundraising and development strategies. Say if they can front 6 months of a salary, you will work closely with their development department on some new fundraising efforts.
Question from Jill Scigliano, United Way:
With the current economic climate, how do you propose nonprofits continue to cultivate young leaders within their organization? What are some affordable alternatives to increases in salaries that non profits can provide to their young leaders?
Shelly Cryer:
It's a challenge. But many strategies are "free" ... or only take the investment of time. Mentorship programs are wonderful and creating a climate where senior staff are involved and engaged in younger staff makes everyone feel good. Offering regular reviews of staff members' work is important. Reviewing job descriptions and thinking strategically about the OPPORTUNITIES we offer our younger staff means so much. Make space so that young, new ideas are heard and shared and taken into consideration as you develop programs. Bring your networks to the younger people you work with.
And also talk with your funders about the value of leadership development. We all need to do more to convince the foundation community and other supporters that we have to invest in the future generation of leaders.
Question from University of North Texas:
As you mentioned, non-profit jobs come through networking. Other than helping students learn to network with them, how do we help connect nonprofit organizations to our campus when they have little to no recruiting dollars?
Shelly Cryer:
This is a great question and challenging issue. Hopefully a previous answer has been posted that touches on this.
Shelly Cryer:
I've so enjoyed this conversation! I am sorry we couldn't get to everyone's questions. I'll work with the Chronicle of Philanthropy to try to answer overflow questions.
And we'll post additional events like this one on the website of the Career Guide (http://www.nonprofitcareerguide.org).
Thank you for your questions. And I wish you all the very best as you pursue a nonprofit career.
Shelly
Cassie Moore (Moderator):
Thanks to everyone who submitted their questions today! Check back later this week for a full transcript of the chat, plus a few more questions and answers that we were unable to get to this afternoon.
Please don't forget to email us at discussions@philanthropy.com to enter to win a free copy of Shelly's new book!
Thanks very much, Cassie Moore
The following questions were answered off-line
Question from Tracy Tran, staffing firm for nonprofits:
Hello Shelly, I started up my own staffing firm that deals with nonprofits and as a startup, I understand the economic crisis has put companies on a hiring freeze, but how would my company can get clients during these tough times?
Shelly Cryer:
Yes, some companies are on a hiring freeze, but not all, although certainly it is a tough time for HR firms and related businesses. But some nonprofits will be needing even MORE help with HR as they struggle to handle their increasing work loads and shrinking budgets.
It would be interesting and worthwhile to do some research on which subsectors are apt to be hurt hardest, which subsectors may not have an impact, and then to target your outreach and business development efforts accordingly. Consider developing some special areas. Attend conferences and other networking events in those fields, or for those job functions. And definitely tap into networks of nonprofits in your community or region.
Question from Mona, small nonprofit - The Guatemala Healing Hands Foundation:
I assisted in the establishment of a small nonprofit in 2004 and have been working for it since then. At this point in my career I feel that I can greatly benefit from going back to school. I am interested in a MPA program. In your opinion, is a graduate degree important in the nonprofit career world, or is work experience just as valuable if not more? Do many people who work in nonprofit have advanced degrees? Thanks!
Shelly Cryer:
Unfortunately, there is no generic answer to the question about grad school and nonprofit employment. Check out some of the other questions and answers on this subject in this Chat.
Question from Yeilyn, former World Vision employee:
Hello Shelly, I have international support program experience in Latin America for 6 years and I just graduated with an MA in International Development. What tipcs can you offer me in order to avoid getting stocked in a support role in my next job? I am seeking for a career stretch as Program Officer/ Coordinator in a Charity at 33. Muchas gracias! :)
Shelly Cryer:
You have substantial experience and good academic credentials. Get input on your cover letter and resume. Ask people at organizations with positions you believe you are qualified for to offer feedback on your materials and make sure they "speak" to the position and your qualifications for it. Build a network. Have people advocating for you. Stay in touch with the faculty members and program directors who were part of your MA program. Get personal leads to positions.
Question from Tony Abbruzzi; UNCG:
I always hear about the advantages of working for a non-profit agency but what are the disadvantages?
Shelly Cryer:
While no two nonprofits are the same, there are some issues that pervade the sector. Nonprofits are known for long hours, low pay, and sometimes managers who focus more on mission than management. Burn-out is real. And it is true that the nonprofit sector is not a place to get rich. But Les Salamon has done important research on salaries in the nonprofit sector, and points out that it is the TYPE of work nonprofits do, not the fact of their being nonprofit, that leads to the lower salaries. If you compare a for-profit and nonprofit doing the same type of work, in fact the nonprofit pays BETTER.
But even though there are some disadvantages overall in the sector, these are not rules. They do not apply to all organizations. And if you do careful research, lots of networking, and take your job search seriously, you can find a job at a great organization, led by wonderful leaders, and work in a healthy and happy environment.
Question from Rachel Kleinberg, recent graduate student, American University:
Hi Shelly, Many people I know fall into an employment gap: They aren't technically entry level, but they don't have strong qualifications for mid-level or managerial positions yet. They have equal to or more than the requested education, but are on the lower edge of the 'number of years necessary' requirement. What would you recommend they look for to progress?
Shelly Cryer:
This is a frequent question and a tough reality in the job market generally, and in particular with nonprofits. One thing to think about is the fact of the lack of obvious career ladders in the nonprofit sector. Frequently, you need to make a lateral move before you can take a step up. Really being strategic about when and how to make a lateral move is helpful. And then of course trying to circumvent the "number of years experience" requirement by having a great porfolio of work performed and successes accomplished, having a vibrant network, taking advantage of extra professional development opportunities, etc. Also, figure out what sets you apart. Do you have a second language? Background that offers a diverse perspective? A special skill? Tap into networks that reflect how you are special, and leverage what you bring to the table to compensate for less experience in terms of years in the workforce.
Question from Kamilah, U of M:
What would be some first steps for securing a program officer position with a public or private foundation? There isn't very much information on the internet on how to 'enter' the field. Are PhD's usually required?
Shelly Cryer:
There's no stock answer on the education required -- see education-related answers earlier in this Chat. Talk with foundation heads or senior program officers and understand their career paths and educational background. Regularly review the postings in The Chronicle of Philanthropy and through the list-serv of the Foundation Center to see how foundation jobs are communicated and the experience required. Gregg Behr contributed a piece in my book about breaking into the foundation world -- it is tough and it can be fairly "insider." I know I have said this a lot, but networking is beyond vital with foundation job hunting.
Question from Melissa, Safe Horizon:
In developing basic skills that can support a career in fundraising and philanthropy, is it better to spend the early years of a career in a large organization, focusing on one particular area or in a small organization, working on many different projects?
Shelly Cryer:
I think both a large and a small organization can serve you very well. The most important thing is that the organization is a healthy one with good leaders running it who support you and the work you are doing, and are committed to providing you with opportunities. In a small organization, you are more likely to get to wear many different hats. But in a large organization, there may be a greater chance that lots of different types of development work is going on, with professionals handling different areas who you can meet and work with. Just be intentional about the work you pursue and the skills you gain. Share with your manager what your goals are, the strengths you have, and how they can contribute to the organization and make sure you get the opportunities you want.
Question from Kim, CUW:
Do you know of nonprofit abroad programs? Can you tell us some credible ones?
Shelly Cryer:
I'm not sure about your question. You don't mean nonprofits that work internationally I don't think. Do you mean organizations that help you find employment or internships with nonprofits overseas? You'll want to get specific recommendations on how to network and identify programs and organizations from individuals in your specific field/issue area.
Question from Jane, Cornell University:
I see you put a lot emphasis on networking and its importance when starting a career in non profit sector. But what would you do when at the end of an internship or fellowship you would see that you improved your skills, but not really increased your base of contacts, since you didn;t have any visibility or exposure in the position held? How do you network in DC, when you are behind a desk all day long.
Shelly Cryer:
First of all, if the work you were doing was interesting and meaningful, don't underestimate the value of that experience. Those skills are vital. And if you did a good job, then you should be able to start your networking WITHIN that organization where you generously contributed your time and talents. Have an exit interview with your manager and other senior leaders in that organization. Review with them what you accomplished and how you contributed to the organization. Articulate your passion for what you want to do, and ask them who you should now speak with. Press them for contacts to their board members, colleagues in the field, and others. They "should" do this, and your job is to make them want to help you.
FOLLOW UP on the leads you get immediately. Be really professional in your follow up. Return to the people who gave you a contact and say THANK YOU. Share with them any developments. Stay in touch with people regularly. You'd be surprised by how many people fail to say "thank you" and follow up. You'll stand out if you do this, and do it well, and you will get more contacts and your network will expand.
Question from Bryan A:
I've been working in Development for 3 years now. All of which have been for grassroots nonprofits. I want to move into the the For Profit sector, specifically the chartiable giving arm of a larger corporation. Are there particular skill sets I should have when I begin looking into these positions in 2-3 years?
Shelly Cryer:
This would be very interesting work and you clearly will have skills that would be helpful in landing this type of job. Know that corporate foundations and similar programs typically are staffed by very few people, and often those people are hired from within the corporation. Get some informational meetings with people doing this type of work. Be clear that you are happy where you are for now, but are planning long term (they will be impressed, and also happy to not be "on the hook" for helping you get a job NOW!). Try to find creative ways to break into the corporate world.
Question from Margaret Salamon, Center for Nonprofit Excellence:
Do you know any law programs that have strong faculty/research/advocacy in nonprofit law?
Shelly Cryer:
Yes, there are a number of progams that are very well respected for how they have integrated nonprofit studies and public interest law into their law programs. But in terms of drilling into where the best faculty/research/advocacy work is going on, you'll want to drill into the specific work you want to do and your field of interest. And just do research. This is an example of where you CAN do some good research on-line. But you still will want to talk with people and get their leads and recommendations.
Question from Priya A, aspiring non-profit marketing professional:
Hi Shelly. I have 7 years of corporate marketing experience and an MPA from NYU. When looking for marketing jobs in non-profits, many see me as over-qualified to do the tactical tasks that are much needed and slightly under-qualified to head up their marketing strategy. How do I best bridge this gap and utilize my public and private sector experience to launch my career in the non-profit? Thanks!
Shelly Cryer:
It sure is frustrating to have someone tell you you are over qualified. I think you can refute this by showing communications materials that you have written and even target media lists you have developed (for example), and just describe that you love doing this work, are great at it and fast at it, and believe that good systems are the underpinnings of any strong communications department. "I know how to make a pitch call. I enjoy it. I am good at it." But then also communicate your ability to understand issues and convey ideas, and develop strategies for an organization. Vision. There's lots of overlap between corporate and nonprofit marketing, so your work experience combined with your MPA should be a powerful package. I think your cover letters are particularly important in your case. They should be very powerful, and you should get folks to look at them to give their feedback.
Question from Bryan, VP, UNO Am.Humanics Student Assoc.:
One of the best things I've done is become a part of the American Humanics program at UNO. It has given me wonderful opportunities. I also think that many who are here today should read "Be Bold" prior to entering the job market. It really helped me use my AH training and I focused on what I want to do. I am glad you have partnered with AH. Hopefully someday most nonprofits will know about AH.
Shelly Cryer:
Thanks for this note, and so glad your experience with American Humanics has been such a good one. Yes, the BE BOLD book is fantastic and inspirational. I feature the writers of it in my book ... Lara Galinsky and Cheryl Dorsey of Echoing Green. You can learn more about this wonderful organization at http://www.echoinggreen.org.
Question from Alice Mae, Pittsburgh:
I've spent 10 years in nonprofits, slowly working up the ladder with hands-on experience and a secondary nonprofit management degree. I'm now finding an increasing amount of competition for higher level nonprofit jobs with Baby Boomers seeking "Encore Careers" and business people leaving corporate life to "slow down." I believe that I have a broad range of skills and can offer much to the sector, but see organizations and their boards attracted to those with business experience. What's your advice on how to best differentiate myself and be competitive? (Leave the sector, in order to come back?)
Shelly Cryer:
My opinion is that you do not need to leave the sector in order to advance in it. I agree that there is most certainly increased competition from the sector-switchers (from business) and the Encore Career-ers. But I still think the majority of nonprofit leaders I speak with value most the individuals who show passion for their mission and the sector, and this is what you bring. Ten years experience is powerful, and puts you at a great level, I think. I'd focus on your own resume, where the holes are, and what YOU want to be doing in three years, and think strategically about that. Are you clear on your goals? Are you clear on your strengths, as well as the specific areas that you need to develop in order to advance to the position you want? This clarity is vital to determining the best path for you to advance.
Question from Debbie, Non profit EMS service:
With today's attention focused on earnings in non-profits, is there any rule of thumb or guideline that should be followed in terms of compensation, especially for management/leaders?
Shelly Cryer:
There isn't. There's such diversity in the nonprofit sector that it is extraordinarily difficult to figure out your market worth in the nonprofit sector. You can do some initial research on salaries with data provided by The Chronicle of Philanthropy, Commongood Careers, Guidestar, the Nonprofit Times salary survey, Professionals for Nonprofits, and Opportunity Knocks. You can use the 990 Forms that nonprofits file to learn about the top salaries of staff at specific nonprofits, and this can give you a framework. And you can also just ask people in your network, within a certain geographic region, about what to expect. The more information you can get, the better armed you will be to understand what you deserve and can get, and then negotiate salary and benefits.
Question from Hsien Hong Lin (Joe), Taiwanese, Kent State University:
I'm a ph.d. candidate at Kent State University for higher education fundraising program. And I am writing my dissertation about Taiwan's donation research and its higher education fundraising situation. I want to look for the related job in the USA to equip up my professional because the USA has had a perfect condition and structure for fundraising and it is worth to be learned for me a few years and then I can apply it in my nation. Can you give me some suggestions for my career plan in the bad economic time?
Shelly Cryer:
Wow! Sounds fascinating. I don't have specific ideas for you, I am sorry. But you should definitely tap your professors, academic advisors, support people for international students, etc., at your university.
Question from Andrea S. - Stanford:
What is your opinion of nonprofit consulting groups for entry-level candidates? Are young employees allowed to get a solid foundation of nonprofit strategy by working at the entry level?
Shelly Cryer:
I've been a consultant for about 15 years or so and have loved the work. But I definitely found it helpful that I had non-consulting nonprofit experience before I entered the consulting world. I was interested in communications and nonprofits, so I got some journalism experience and some full time nonprofit experience, and this really served me well. Working for a firm is a little different, and I think more suitable for the entry-level. And there are some simple stellar nonprofit consulting groups out there. Do research and see the clients that groups within your geographic radius have. Weigh whether it would be better to get more targeted/concentrated experience in a specific field and job function, or if you think you would flourish with the diversity of work you would have at a firm. And consider how this applies to your much longer term career goals.
Question from Jessica Gravunder, AFL-CIO:
I've been working in the organized labor world for 5 years and have struggled all the while to get my foot in the door in the non-profit world. I've been volunteering at several non-profits (in different capacities) to boost my resume, but even many years of that doesn't seem to help. I feel pigeon-holed. Any advice?
Shelly Cryer:
Have you been clear in articulating your career goals to the people around you? Are you able to state passionately the specific type of work you want to do and the type of organization you want to work for? Have you had someone look at your resume to see how you communicate your volunteer experience? (Have your volunteer experiences been strategic? Do they support your career goals?) I think your organized labor experience would be of great interest to certain types of nonprofit organizations and their leaders, so it's really about finding the right approach and right match.
Question from Cody Clifton, Future Non-Profit:
I am a student who has a GREAT plan for a non-profit in the Twin Cities area. I plan to open a firm that give music lessons to children who can not afford them. I've even figured out a way to make it self-sustaining and pay for everything on its own. Each professor that has seen my plan LOVES it and they encourage me to start work on it right away. My question is this: What is the best way to procure the initial capital for this type of venture? Unfortunately, my credit is not suitable to obtain a loan and I'm not sure how to approach potential investors. Thank you very much for this wonderful service!
Shelly Cryer:
Sounds fantastic, and sounds like you have vision and passion. The first thing I would encourage you to do is make absolute, 100% sure this could not be implemented best by being a new program of an existing nonprofit organization. Are you very sure you must set up your own nonprofit, and are you sure you want to? There are so many benefits to taking your idea to a like-minded org. If you are sure you NEED a new nonprofit for this, then do some research on establishing 501(c)(3) status.
Either way, you'll want to develop a tight, brief proposal that is your "concept paper" that you can share with potential partners and funders. Have a section that is statement of need, target populations to be served, program description, list of advisors, brief background on who you are, first 2-3 year budget, etc.
Question from Elisabeth, gov't agency:
Do you have any tips on how to decipher if a job announcement is truly open to the public, or just a required posting? Having connections that can speak more candidly with the organization would obviously help, but if that is not a possibility, how can you tactfully find out? One of my greatest frustrations has been going through the process of researching a position, trying to find connections via my network, tailoring my resume and sending in a great application, only to be met with an answer that indicates they already had an internal candidate selected...or more frustratingly, no response whatsoever. I know organizations are swamped, but so am I, and I would really like to avoid this kind of situation.
Shelly Cryer:
I agree with you and your frustration is legitimate. No, I don't really know of a way to determine if something is being posted only to follow procedure. But, as you suggest, it is why your network is so vital. It is the people who you know who will say, "I heard X organization is really desperate to find a new development associate. And I told the exec director to expect a call from you." People out in the field will have their finger on the pulse of what is available, so to speak.
Question from Joe Collura, self-employed:
Hi Shelly, I have 15 years of B2B sales and marketing and entrepreneurial experience, including a few years in association management. In previous positions I held titles of Manager and Director but in title only-never actually directly supervising anyone, although I've managed cross-functional teams. I am in the midst of a job search and feel I need this direct supervisory experience to advance my career. Do you have any suggestions on how to respond to the question "so, have you ever managed anyone?" (other than just saying "no, I have not", of course). How can I spin it into something positive? Thank you in advance!
Shelly Cryer:
I understand this challenge. Right - you can't fib about experience you do not have. But you can talk about your attributes that relate to management. Your communication skills. Your ability to establish systems, communications chanels, etc. Your ability to work with diverse clients. And I certainly think you can talk about your management of cross-functional teams and have that work serve you. Also, do you have any management experience in volunteer capacities? Don't forget to think outside of strict work settings. Finally, being honest about what you are good at and your passion to be a skilled manager (and confidence in your ability to do so) can help ... and don't dwell on what you haven't done.
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